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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:13 pm
by Smuz
Here is where I had to remove some metal at the top of the carrier opening. Prolly removed 1/8 to 1/4 inch all around. Took about 20 minutes with a die grinder.

One concern about this is that there is a ridge on the carrier cap that fits into this opening and centers the cap. This doesn't work after enlarging the hole, so care must be taken during re-assembly to make sure the cap is centered.

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:25 pm
by Smuz
This is a comparison of the stock thrust washer (on the left) to the much thicker new washer (on the right) that I had to use to get the clearances I wanted.

This new washer came from Ace hardware. It was a "hardened thick metric washer" size M24, 10.9 hardness. $1.19 ea. It's about 5/32 inch thick.

Again, I had to die grind the inside to fit over the side gear hub. When I put this thing together for real, I'm gonna polish the sides of this washer a lot more.

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:33 pm
by Smuz
Here is the inside of the carrier with the bottom side gear and thick thrust washer installed.

On top off the side gear is the original thrust washer. I used this in place of the spacer that came with the Locker kit. What's needed here is to be able to lay the pinion block on top of the side gear and shim and have to raise the block just a whisker to slide in the pinion shafts.

Precision measurements, huh?

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:37 pm
by Smuz
Here is the clutch coupler installed on top of the side gear. In a real installation, there would be 2 pins and 2 spring packs in the coupler.

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:42 pm
by Smuz
The pinion block and pins installed. After this is done, you should be able to reach your fat little finger through the axle hole in the bottom of the carrier and move the bottom side gear up and down about 1/16 to 1/8 inch (more precision measurements). My side gear movement ended up about half what it was in the stock unit.

Another concern I have is the oil groves in the pinion shafts. The new pins supplied with the kit do not have them. I surmise that there is possibly a conflict between the oil grooves and the clutch couplers when they cam in and out. The new smooth pins are too long and would have to be cut to use them. Since this is a "proof of concept" test, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna try it with the stock pins first.

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:50 pm
by Smuz
The original thrust washer moved to the new location.

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:53 pm
by Smuz
The upper clutch coupler installed. Clearance is not as tight as it looks, although it is close.

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:56 pm
by Smuz
Top side gear installed. Notice the difference in size between it and the clutch coupler. This allows the side gear to set much lower than a larger gear would, and is the reason for the thick new thrust washers.

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:00 pm
by Smuz
The new thick thrust washer installed. Notice the amount of side gear hub remaining. Marginal, in my opinion, but will prolly be fine with the stock engine power.

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:22 pm
by Smuz
And buttoned up.

In this position the bottom side gear is fully engaged with the coupler and turns with the carrier. The top side gear is fully disengaged from the coupler and turns freely. The top coupler is down against the pinion shafts as it would be when unlocking. When the carrier is inverted, the couplers lock and unlock, repectively, as they should. Remember, this is without the springs and pins in the couplers. We're letting gravity simulate the cam action of the locker.

This LOOKS like it would work. I see no reason why it shouldn't. It would be better, in my opinion, to have larger side gears in order to minimize the thickness of the thrust washer and increase the surface contact between the side gears and the couplers.

Anybody got a set of side gears from an LJ80 or a Sammi they wanna donate to the cause? I'd be happy to try them and see if they'd work.

Cost of this project was $203 for the locker and $2.52 for the thrust washers, plus about 10 hours total labor (including axle dissassembly and cleaning). The parts were left clean and dry during assembly and the top carrier bearing was removed for picture clarity.

The camera used was an Olympia C720. A really NICE camera (if anibody's interested).

Thanks to Jimny for the trashed LJ10 axle to play with and Russ for donating a good set of side gears.

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:26 pm
by Smuz

A bit off topic, but I thought y'all would enjoy seeing the birfield out of the axle that Jimny donated.

That boy is HARD on equipment.

(we even yet, Jimny?)

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 8:43 am
by Jimny
(we even yet, Jimny?)
No where close, that doesn't bother me, that is what happens when you weld the front end, that is the reason why we need a locker setup. I drove it like that for several miles after it "popped" but every so often I wasn't able to turn it to the left, so I would have to back up a ways until it released so I could turn it. 8) :D :twisted:

So we DO have lockers that will fit an LJ20? SWEET!!!! I will be ordering a set soon.

Steve can you get them?

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:11 pm
by Smuz
Remember, this hasn't been field tested yet.

I got the locker mail order from Tellico4x4 for 192.95. Best price I could find fairly quickly.

Lockright 1520 ... /5a/page/3

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:03 pm
by Jimny
SWEET! So what are you waiting for? Go test it!!!!!!! :roll:


Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:52 pm
by Smuz
Dontcha think mebbe I ought have a vehicle around it?

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 4:41 pm
by Jimny
Jimny wrote::wink:

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:26 am
by stevec

I'm sure I paid less (~$175?) when I ordered one for Jock last summer, but I'd have to check. I think I got it from Figmo at Roadless Gear. I too would like to see how much difference LJ80 side gears would make; I would think that Samurai's would be too big. Guess we'll just have to wait until Sancho switches to D44's?

Smuz, thanks for all your hard work! Let us know how well it works!

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:53 pm
by Smuz
Guess we'll just have to wait until Sancho switches to D44's?
Actually, Sancho seems to have his heart set on Sammi engine, tranny, xfer, and axles. But that's awhile down the road, kid just bought a house and ain't got no money.

I was mostly interested in trying this with the 10/20 side gears, as that would be the option avaliable to most people.

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:45 pm
by Jimny
Hey Smuz wanna put the locker you set up into the rear of the LJ20V? It would be a good test subject.

Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:30 pm
by Smuz
Jimny wrote:Hey Smuz wanna put the locker you set up into the rear of the LJ20V? It would be a good test subject.
That's a thot.......

I was thinking about putting it in the front of Mouser, but I ain't real anxious to take that apart agin. Lemme think onit.

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:48 am
by Idahopaul
how will the carrier cap stay centered with no machined surface to push agianst? the bolts surely will not hold up to the task, if they did hold they would work loose. what I thought on that was that if you took the carrier to the machine shop you could have it machined out to a size then have a shim built for the cap, so the cap would center itself agian and take the load off the bolts.

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:16 am
by russmehl
how will the carrier cap stay centered
Maybe a couple of dowels would be in order....
Machined in before the shoulder is removed.
Need the carrier those gears came out of?


Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:13 pm
by Idahopaul
ya, the dowels could work, if there is enough material in the cap to hold them. hey smuz, thanks for doing all the work on this, it is a lot of help to us who would like a locker. I would like to see all that with the LJ80 side gears!
really if it all works out it will be a fair price to have a locker. my thoughts on the locker is that it would actually take a weak link out of the side gears by using all the teeth on the gears. so a great big thanks to Smuz! :cool:

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:02 pm
by Idahopaul
any more news on this? I have a junk carrier, I thought about taking it to northwest machine and have them enlarge the opening and biuld up the cap so its more like the original setup agian. I dont think this would cost a whole lot, but we will see. so I guess I also need the lj80 side gears, are they available used?

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:30 am
by Smuz
Only news is that the thing is still sitting on my desk where I left it. I did have a faint stirring last week to put it together and stick it in Mouser's front end. But it was a pretty faint stirring.