LJ Lockers

Any other parts that are direct replacements.

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Smuz
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Post by Smuz » Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:04 pm

OK, got one on the way.

If I can't make it work in an LJ10/20, I kin allus put it in Sancho.
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Post by Jimny » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:29 pm

:cool:
I'd rather be driving my LJ!
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Post by Smuz » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:52 pm

I need a third member, tho.
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Post by Smuz » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:57 pm

Jimny, did that busted front axle in yer shop go with the two LJ's I bought from you?

As soon as you figgure out that the answer is "yes", then you can figgure out how and when I kin pick it up to work on this locker thing.

I'll be in Joplin week after next from the 20th to the 23rd.
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Post by Smuz » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:03 pm

I also think that I'm onto sumpin to make an LJ front (and possibly a rear) disk brake conversion super easy and cheap.
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Post by Jimny » Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:51 pm

Yes I will donate it for the good of the future of LJ's.
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Post by Smuz » Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:20 pm

OK, Jimny, I got this here locker clutched in my fat little fingers. Now I need that dif.

Ain't no way we kin figgure out how to let me get aholt of it next week is there? I'll be in Joplin Monday thru Thursday.

Speak to me, ole great one.......
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Post by Jimny » Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:08 am

Yes my dad knows where it is so when you drop by he can tell you were to GO! :wink: j/k ...he can show you where it is. I think there are two of them, the one you are talking about is "Lincoln Electric" locked and the other one is original inners but is the one someone welded a spindle on the right side. You can have both if you have room in your van.
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Post by 4traktreka » Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:32 pm

I hope the disc conversion is going ok, I would like to do this to my 80, I was going to try with sammy parts. I know it is possible to fit sammy (SJ) axles but I want to keep LJ centre diffs and transfer box if at all possible
Regards Phil :cool:
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Post by Smuz » Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:59 pm

Ah hell.

That diff that I got from Jimny has got welded side gears. I got the diff apart and the carrier reamed out so's that the locker fits in it. Now all I need is a good set of side gears so's I can put it together and check alla the clearances and test it. Anybody got a good set of side gears? I'd trade for a welded set.

FYI:

The original spider gear pins and the locker pins are not only different lengths, they are different diameter. This causes just abit of slop in the locker. The locker has quite a bit of slop aniways, so this may not be a factor. If it is a factor, plan B is to drill out the carrier and the spider block to fit the new locker pins and cut them to length. We shall see.

Edit: The two pin sets ARE the same diameter. I musta been cross-eyed when I tried 'em the first time.

I'm also a bit concerned about the distance between side gears on the LJ10 as opposed to the LJ80/SJ410. May have to play around with shims.

More later.
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Post by russmehl » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:05 am

I've got a diff with a toothless pinion. I'll look in and see if the side gears are OK. I'll let you know some time this week end.
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Post by Smuz » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:02 pm

Cool
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Post by russmehl » Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:51 pm

Ok, I have a usable carrier, side & spider gears, dirty but no chips. (Bearings and ring gear removed)
How much of this do you need/want? If you let me know before noon on monday, I can get it into the UPS at work.
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Post by Smuz » Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:40 pm

How much of this do you need/want?
Just the two little side gears and their shims.
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Post by russmehl » Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:27 am

OK, I will put the two splined side gears and their thrust washers in a box and UPS it to you Monday. You should get it Wed. or so. I still have your home address in a PM somewhere. :D
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Post by Smuz » Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:00 pm

I owe ya one Russ. Lemme know wot the shipping cost is.
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Post by Smuz » Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:33 pm

Got the gears from Russ tonight. Tried 'em in the diff. Clearances are all wrong. I think I may be able to shim the side gears enough to work, but it's gonna be iffy.

The problem is that the locker couplers cam off of the spider shafts to lock and unlock. The clearances have to be set so that when the locker couplers disengage they contact the pinion block just after they clear the side gears.

The LJ10 side gears are smaller than the LJ80 side gears (which this locker was designed for) and therefore sit much lower in the couplers. This has the effect of having the locker decoupled at all times. Ungood. The ideal situation is that.when the couplers are disengaged (pushed all the way to the center where they touch the pinion shaft) they just barely clear the side gears. To shim the side gears to this point will take almost a 1/4 of an inch. That ain't gonna leave much of the side gear boss engages in the carrier. A more elegant solution might be to use LJ80 side gears in the LJ10 carrier, but that ain't what we got to work with.

I didn't have enough shims to try this out tonight. I'm going to the store tomorrow and I'll try to get enough shims to test this out.

A side effect of this little project was to force me to unnerstand exactly how Lockright lockers function, both in theory and in practice. Boy, this setup is a HACK! It's effective and it works and it's economical, but God it is a crude implementation.

I think my head hurts.
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Post by russmehl » Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:47 pm

I'll be wanting some pictures.... I'm still trying to figure out how the locker fits into the carrier and how it works.
Could you add material to the face of the side gear? Or am I missing some important point...
Give us a peek.
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Post by Smuz » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:22 pm

russmehl wrote:I'll be wanting some pictures.... I'm still trying to figure out how the locker fits into the carrier and how it works.
Could you add material to the face of the side gear? Or am I missing some important point...
Give us a peek.
Russ
Yeah. I dunno how much pics will help. I hadda have alla the parts in front of me and maniplulate them in my hands before I unnerstood it. I'll try. tho. The biggest item that helped me was when I realized that 100% of the driving force was transmitted from the ring gear thru the carrier and then thru the spider pinion shafts to the side gears. It is the pinion shafts that do the driving. Getting the force from the pinion shafts to the side gears is the function of the spider gears. The locker couplers replace the spider gears. The half round holes in the couplers that fit over the pinion shafts are elongated. This elongation forces the couplers apart when they are driven by the pinion shafts. By the couplers being forced apart, they are forced to engage the side gears and thus drive the axles. Therefore niether axle can possibly go slower than the ring gear/carrier/pinion shafts. One of the flashes of genius from whatever twisted mind invented this locker was to swap the side gears to opposite sides when installing the locker. This way the locker coupler drives against the unused side of the side gear and holds well. When one axle must (as on a turn) go faster than the other, the coupler forces against the worn side of the side gear, helping the the coupler to cam inward, disconnecting from the side gear. and allowing that axle to turn faster than the ring gear.

Phew! Clear as mud.

The bottom line to all this is that the couplers must contact the pinion block just after they disengage from the side gears and the side gears must not be far enough from the pinion block that the coupler cannot engage. In a normal, properly engineered locker, this is accomplished by sizing the coupler in accordance to the stock side gear.

In this instance we are using a coupler sized for a totally different side gear. Therefore we must make up the difference by moving the side gear inward towards the center of the unit. This takes shims. Moving the side gear inward does two things: it lessens the amount of axle that is engaged in the side gear and it lessens the amount of the side gear boss that is engaged in the carrier. Kinda a trade off.

The answer to your question is: No, you can't just build up the face of the gear.

Did anybody unnerstand any of what I just said? This is damned hard to explain. And yes, I will post pics.
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Post by stevec » Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:33 am

Makes sense to me, but then I've installed a couple of Lockrights before, and played with the LJ20 carrier/LJ80 locker last summer. I think the only way to understand it fully is to actually take a carrier apart and look at the pieces. I remember being concerned about the side gears being too small. How easy would it be to use LJ80 side gears? Aside from actually finding them, the axle splines are the same, aren't they? 1/4" worth of shims is an awful lot...
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Post by Smuz » Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:35 pm

stevec wrote:Makes sense to me, but then I've installed a couple of Lockrights before, and played with the LJ20 carrier/LJ80 locker last summer. I think the only way to understand it fully is to actually take a carrier apart and look at the pieces. I remember being concerned about the side gears being too small. How easy would it be to use LJ80 side gears? Aside from actually finding them, the axle splines are the same, aren't they? 1/4" worth of shims is an awful lot...
Yes, I'm sure that the LJ80 gears have the same axle spline as the LJ10. The LJ10 and the Sammi (SJ413) are the same, so I figgure inclusive.

I would like to try to compare LJ10, LJ80, and SJ413 side gears side by side, but I don't gots alla them :( .

The shim actually turned out to be about 5/32. Really doesn't look that bad. Pics and explan. to follow.

And that's gonna take me most of the evening to write up. I type real slow.
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Post by stevec » Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:45 pm

Smuz wrote:And that's gonna take me most of the evening to write up. I type real slow.
Take your time, and include lots of pictures. I can't wait to read it! :cool:
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Post by Smuz » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:04 pm

OK, here goes.

For those that have never seen a Lockright locker, here's a pic shamelessly stolen from Lockright's web site.
Not shown are the 4 pins and 8 small springs that go between the two clutch couplers.
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Locker kit.jpg
Lockright 1520
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Post by Smuz » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:08 pm

This is what it looks like inside the stock diff with the 4 spider gears.
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Post by Smuz » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:10 pm

This is the dissassembled stock diff.
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