drivelines

Little tricks and some things you shouldn't do for your L Series Suzuki

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Idahopaul
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drivelines

Post by Idahopaul » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:48 am

looking for driveline yokes with the same u-joint as the lj10's with replaceable joints? get a driveline from a datsun pickup from 1980-82. other years may be the same, but I have not researched them. 2 or 4 wheel drive is same. a spicer 1501 joint is used in both suzuki and datsun. if you need the yoke that bolts on, the datson one is different than the suzuki.
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Post by stevec » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:32 am

Early Samurai (pre '88.5) yokes almost bolt up to the LJ flanges, and have the same u-joint as the LJ10.
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Post by Idahopaul » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:02 am

Stevec wrote:
"Early Samurai (pre '88.5) yokes almost bolt up to the LJ flanges, and have the same u-joint as the LJ10."
Is the machined circle the same size? if so it would work fine, just move the holes so they match and the machined circle keeps them lined up properly.
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Post by stevec » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:32 am

That's the part I haven't checked, but it should be close. It would be ideal if it was the same!
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Post by Smuz » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:32 pm

It would be ideal if it was the same!
I don't think it is. If I remember correctly, that's why I combo'd the u-joint on the back of the Sammi intermediate shaft so I could use the LJ flange.
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Post by Fordzuki » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:11 am

The Datsun one won't bolt up, I looked into this when I was looking for a replacement motor/tranny for my lj20. The datsun flange has a rectangular bolt pattern, as the LJ's are square. The hub in the center of the Datsun flange is also bigger than the Lj. The ujoints are wider in the datsun shaft than the Lj20. Though I'm not sure what it is from, possibly an lj80 or sj410, there is a flange that will bolt up to the lj20 transfercase flanges, and has wide enough "ears" to u-joint it to an sj413 driveshaft. In the process of collecting parts for mine, I bought two sj413 driveshafts, one of which I noticed had a different looking flange on one end. Well, I didn't think anything of it till I went to bolt it to the 88.5 and older sj413 transfer case. The bolt pattern on this "different" flange was smaller even than the early sj413 bolt pattern, which is the smaller of the two bolt patterns for the sj413. SO basically, if anybody knows what this flange is from, it has the correct bolt pattern for the LJ20 axles and transfercase, but has a serviceable ujoint which is the same as the sj413. The only difference between the two flanges, besides the bolt pattern is the sj413 has an external snapring to hold the ujoint cap in, and the mystery flange has the internal c clip.
Fordzuki: '72 LJ20 body and frame, sj413 axles and t-case 6.5:1 gears, ranger 2.3 & tk4, Datsun leafs front, 4 link & 1/4 lip rear, toy ifs steering, 34x10.50 LTBs on 15x8 w/2.5 BS, rear discs, xrc8 winch, crazy driver
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Drive Lines

Post by Myers » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:19 pm

Fordzuk - Do you have any additional info on the yoke with replaceable u-joints?
Anybody - Has anyone taken one of the original u-joints apart ? If so, is there something available aftermarket that would fit if the original LJ yokes were built for replacement type joints?
Reasoning - maybe the original yokes could be machined to accept the keepers for the replaceable type joints.

Had considerable chatter/vibration when releasing clutch on my LJ20 even when in 2- wheel drive. Although there was no slack in the U-joints on the rear drive shaft, there was some up/down movement in the spline on the front yoke. Possible due to being driven while transmission mounts bad and with tranny resting on pipe cross member. Replaced it today with one with a tight spline. It came from a parts LJ that had been stored outside in a pasture for years. Helped the chatter/vibration considerably. The joints on the replacement seem both tight and free but I anticipate a short service life so need to work on Plan B.
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Re: Drive Lines

Post by stevec » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:36 am

Myers wrote:Had considerable chatter/vibration when releasing clutch on my LJ20 even when in 2- wheel drive.
Sounds like you must have a squirrel trapped under there somewhere. There were quite a few around Cooke City, one probably stowed away. :wink:

I assume you greased the new shaft really good (i.e. made sure the old grease was forced out) before you put it in? If so, it should last awhile. As far as replacing those LJ20 u-joints, I don't have a good solution, except to find some with replaceable u-joints. I think front and rear LJ80 shafts will bolt up, and they have the replaceable u-joints. I haven't actually measured it though - the LJ80's may be slightly shorter, since the diff is bigger.
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Drive line

Post by Myers » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:08 am

Thanks Steve, did clean and lubricate the spline (shaft and yoke) U-joints seem ok - ie: no slack and free to move. With the age of the original grease, the probability is that they won't last long.
Any source for the LJ80 stuff?
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Re: Drive line

Post by stevec » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:08 am

Myers wrote:Any source for the LJ80 stuff?
Canada. I'm sure a few of the Canadians here have a spare driveshaft or two.
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Re: Drive Lines

Post by Fordzuki » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:09 pm

Myers wrote:Fordzuk - Do you have any additional info on the yoke with replaceable u-joints?
From what I've read on here, the mystery yoke I have on the samurai driveline must be from either an LJ10 or LJ80. The bolt pattern is smaller than a pre 88.5 sami yoke, yet bigger than an LJ20 yoke. I don't have an lj10 or 80 to confirm this though.
Fordzuki: '72 LJ20 body and frame, sj413 axles and t-case 6.5:1 gears, ranger 2.3 & tk4, Datsun leafs front, 4 link & 1/4 lip rear, toy ifs steering, 34x10.50 LTBs on 15x8 w/2.5 BS, rear discs, xrc8 winch, crazy driver
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Post by Smuz » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:25 pm

yet bigger than an LJ20 yoke.
The LJ10 yoke is the same bolt pattern as the LJ20. The LJ10 u-joint is the same physical size as an SJ413. The LJ10 u-joint has keepers on the INSIDE of the yoke, the SJ413 has recessed keepers on the OUTSIDE of the yoke.

I've had good luck using a new SJ413 u-joint and taking all the bearings out of the caps, installing the new bearings into the used LJ10 caps and using the new SJ413 cross. Basically just replacing the SJ413 caps with the LJ10 caps.

I'm just getting into researching the LJ20 u-joints.

FYI.
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Re: Drive Lines

Post by stevec » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:50 am

Fordzuki wrote:From what I've read on here, the mystery yoke I have on the samurai driveline must be from either an LJ10 or LJ80. The bolt pattern is smaller than a pre 88.5 sami yoke, yet bigger than an LJ20 yoke. I don't have an lj10 or 80 to confirm this though.
The bolt pattern on the driveshaft flanges should be the same for LJ10, LJ20, and LJ80. They all use the same e-brake drum, which the rear driveshaft bolts onto.

I know pre-88.5 Samurai's were different than post '88, but I thought the earlier style was smaller. Yours could be an SJ410? Or it could be something completely different (i.e. Datsun/Nissan or Toyota).
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Re: Drive Lines

Post by Fordzuki » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:14 am

stevec wrote:I know pre-88.5 Samurai's were different than post '88, but I thought the earlier style was smaller. Yours could be an SJ410? Or it could be something completely different (i.e. Datsun/Nissan or Toyota).
You're right, the earlier is smaller, because I have the earlier model on both outputs of the transfercase and the axles, and bought a later flange for the input to run the Ranger driveshaft peices to. I've ruled out the early Datsun (68-79) as it's rectangular, the only toyota one I've had to compare with was a later (90ish) fourrunner. I'm thinking it's gotta be a 410 yolk, maybe someone with more experience with the 410 vs. 413s could chime in.
Fordzuki: '72 LJ20 body and frame, sj413 axles and t-case 6.5:1 gears, ranger 2.3 & tk4, Datsun leafs front, 4 link & 1/4 lip rear, toy ifs steering, 34x10.50 LTBs on 15x8 w/2.5 BS, rear discs, xrc8 winch, crazy driver
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Re: drivelines

Post by Idahopaul » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:24 am

the right joint can be bought for the lj10 style flange/yoke, napa brand is puj 393. the sami's are napa puj 398. there is a precision number that works for both Ill find the number and post soon. Im sure you can still get the Koyo brand if you want, I will check next time I go buy bearings. I found a dealer that has koyo in stock locally, dont know what kind of u-joint selection they have though.
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Re: drivelines

Post by Fordzuki » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:08 pm

Eureka! I've found the mystery flange! The flange that was on the samurai driveline that I purchased turns out to be an sj410 yoke. I was helping someone move an sj410 today, and laying in the back was one of the drivelines. Sure enough, it matched perfectly with the flange that was on the sj413 driveline I had. The difference between the two are that the 413s snaprings are on the outside, where as the 410s are on the inside. Also the flange side, that bolts to the pinion flange, has a smaller pattern than the smaller of the two 413 patterns. Also the ears are shaped a little different, slimming down before the flange side, where the 413 is straight.
Fordzuki: '72 LJ20 body and frame, sj413 axles and t-case 6.5:1 gears, ranger 2.3 & tk4, Datsun leafs front, 4 link & 1/4 lip rear, toy ifs steering, 34x10.50 LTBs on 15x8 w/2.5 BS, rear discs, xrc8 winch, crazy driver
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Re: drivelines

Post by stevec » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:44 am

So SJ410's use the same u-joints as LJ's (except those funky, non-replaceable LJ20 ones). Do you happen to have an LJ flange, to see if the SJ410 matches it?
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Re: drivelines

Post by Fordzuki » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:11 pm

stevec wrote:So SJ410's use the same u-joints as LJ's (except those funky, non-replaceable LJ20 ones). Do you happen to have an LJ flange, to see if the SJ410 matches it?
Actually, the sj413 uses the same u-joint as the sj410, caps may be different, as the 410 has the internal ring, and the 413 has the external. The only lj flange I have is a lj20 flange, and the 4 holes are smaller even than the 410, and if I remember right, the lj20 ujoint is much smaller (and non replaceable, like you said) So in order of size:
LJ20 is smallest
410 is slightly larger than lj20
413(88.5 and under) is slightly larger than 410
413(88.5 and up) is slightly larger than 413(88.5 and under)
The only ones I don't have would be 10, 50, 80

I will get some pics and measurements of the ones I do have.
Fordzuki: '72 LJ20 body and frame, sj413 axles and t-case 6.5:1 gears, ranger 2.3 & tk4, Datsun leafs front, 4 link & 1/4 lip rear, toy ifs steering, 34x10.50 LTBs on 15x8 w/2.5 BS, rear discs, xrc8 winch, crazy driver
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Re: drivelines

Post by Smuz » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:16 pm

The LJ10 u-joint is the same size as the SJ413 u-joint, but with the keepers inside the yoke.

I have refurbished LJ10 u-joints by re-using the LJ10 caps with SJ413 bearings and cross. Kind of a pain, but it works.
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Re: drivelines

Post by Fordzuki » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:22 pm

Smuz wrote:The LJ10 u-joint is the same size as the SJ413 u-joint, but with the keepers inside the yoke.

I have refurbished LJ10 u-joints by re-using the LJ10 caps with SJ413 bearings and cross. Kind of a pain, but it works.
So then, in theory, the sj410 joints are the same as the lj10 joints? Cause the sj410s have the keepers on the inside too.

Edit: just found this on zuwharrie. The GMB part number for sj410 joints.
GMB Corporation, model APS1
Fordzuki: '72 LJ20 body and frame, sj413 axles and t-case 6.5:1 gears, ranger 2.3 & tk4, Datsun leafs front, 4 link & 1/4 lip rear, toy ifs steering, 34x10.50 LTBs on 15x8 w/2.5 BS, rear discs, xrc8 winch, crazy driver
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Re: drivelines

Post by Smuz » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:35 am

Fordzuki wrote: So then, in theory, the sj410 joints are the same as the lj10 joints? Cause the sj410s have the keepers on the inside too.
I'd say so, until proven wrong
Edit: just found this on zuwharrie. The GMB part number for sj410 joints.
GMB Corporation, model APS1
Great! Now where do ya get the nasty things?

BTW: you can put an LJ10 flange on an SJ413 driveline (or vice-versa) by using LJ caps on one side of the cross and SJ caps on the other. I've done it several times.
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Re: drivelines

Post by Frankenstein » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:31 am

Sj410 type 1 and 2 (type 3 came out in 1985) and lj80's use the same joints and flanges, according to the partsprogram!
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Re: drivelines

Post by stevec » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:31 am

Or you could just get OEM ones. They're only about $35-40.

And the LJ10 part number supercedes to the LJ80 number, so the LJ10, LJ50, LJ80, and SJ410 all use the same u-joint. (No longer just a theory!)
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